Steven Butala: Hey, Steven here. Welcome to The Land Academy Show, entertaining land investment talk. I hope so, anyway. I’m Steven Jack Butala, broadcasting from sort of sunny California today. And today I talk with Umar, the manager of one of our companies called Offers2Owners.com. Hopefully he’s going to share some interesting stories of our Land Academy members and their offer campaigns that they try to send out, what? Like weekly, monthly?
Umar Awar: For some, weekly. For some, almost daily at this point.
Steven Butala: What’s going on with that? What’s the typical, or is there a typical, methodology that our members use to send these offer campaigns out, the consistent ones?
Umar Awar: The consistent ones follow your method times four. So the numbers are insane.
Steven Butala: So 1500. What we recommend when you start out is 1500 a month.
Umar Awar: Right.
Steven Butala: Which should yield one or two acquisitions a month, and to practice and get your feet wet and get started. So people do more than that?
Umar Awar: Oh yeah.
Steven Butala: I know we do.
Umar Awar: I mean people are doing 10,000 letters out the door every two weeks. And yeah, it’s-
Steven Butala: How many people send that much mail out? And do you talk to them and learn what their results are?
Umar Awar: Yeah, I want to say a good 40 to 50 people have gotten that consistent at this point. The other people, they’re getting good results. So why fix something that’s broken kind of mindset. But yeah. No, for the most part there’s about 40, 50 of them who just consistently want to shoot out. And I think it’s because more so that they have their teams in place now, so they can handle the calls, they can do all that.
Steven Butala: I see. You know, we just had our live event last week or two weeks ago. I can’t remember. But anyway, recently. And I started off the whole live event, I think I said this yesterday, talking to Aaron. I started out and I stood up and said, is there anybody in this room that isn’t convinced now that this works? Because when we started Land Academy, Joe and I, our biggest challenge was to get people convinced that direct mail, the way that we do it, sending offers, not just a notice of interest.
Umar Awar: Right.
Steven Butala: Really, really works. And everybody, nobody stood up and said, nobody said anything negative. So this thing works. The way we do it, it works. It’s been proven now for two decades. Two and a half decades for me personally.
Umar Awar: Absolutely. I’ve actually written eight blogs on it.
Steven Butala: Really?
Umar Awar: Yeah.
Steven Butala: You’ve written eight blogs?
Umar Awar: I’ve written eight blog on Offers2Owners. It’s a fully live.
Steven Butala: I am always the last person to know everything as the owner. As the owner of these companies, I know everything last, which is probably how it should be. What’s your blogs about?
Umar Awar: Direct mail.
Steven Butala: Well that works.
Umar Awar: And the last one, well that, and dealing with different kinds of issues. Everything you need to get your offer letters set up. And yeah, it’s a biweekly blog. It’s a different topic every two weeks.
Steven Butala: So let’s talk about some of the issues. What issues that people typically have that are newer, I guess, at this? Because the people who are sending 10,000 out of a week, like us, that’s about what we send out, actually, we’ve gotten over it. So what are some of the issues?
Umar Awar: You know what? Mail merges and data management. That’s always, I feel like. And that can occur later in your real estate career too.
Steven Butala: Yeah. Every time I do a mailer, there’s some weird data thing that happens that I have to address. You have to be really flexible.
Umar Awar: Oh really? Exactly. And I mean, there comes a point when you’re dropping a formula into Excel and you ruin a whole column, and you just have to start back up.
Steven Butala: Yeah, you have to start over.
Umar Awar: Right.
Steven Butala: You know, with the last mailer that we did, it was about 17,000 units, and every time I do a mailer that’s large like that, which is almost always now, in the back of my head I’m like, man, if we get one line off here.
Umar Awar: Right.
Steven Butala: If there’s one line where the address doesn’t match. It’s never happened to me. Never. I’ve heard of this happening. But it’s like, wow, that would be a mess. Have you heard of this happening?
Umar Awar: Oh, absolutely. I actually have a test for that too. Just take three lines from the top, three in the middle, three in the bottom, and parcel fact.
Steven Butala: Oh, that’s great. Test for reason.
Umar Awar: Yep.
Steven Butala: Do you do that on everyone’s mailer.
Umar Awar: When we’re yielding out 300,000 mailers a month, I don’t have the time to sit down and do that. However, I try to at least get one APN test in there.
Steven Butala: Okay. Yeah, if you’re doing a 17,000 unit mailer and you test line number 16,000 and it matches, you’re going to be fine.
Umar Awar: Right, exactly.
Steven Butala: So we run it through software now. Now that I’m thinking about it, we run it through software that’s not going to let that happen anyway.
Umar Awar: Right, right.
Steven Butala: Right. So we just got off this live event, I know that people are there that have spoken… There’s some people that come to this live event that have spoken to Umar like 400 times. So they finally get to meet you. What do they say?
Umar Awar: They didn’t expect for me to look like this.
Steven Butala: What do they expect you to look like?
Umar Awar: I don’t know. I’m not sure. They’re all like, you sound and look entirely different. And I was like, fantastic.
Steven Butala: Wow. Do you know what some people said to me at the live event? You’re a lot shorter in person. You’re just a regular guy like me. That’s what some people said too. I’m like, well, what did you expect? What did you expect? Did you expect me to be six and a half feet tall and look like a viking?
Umar Awar: Just ripped.
Steven Butala: Yeah. I mean, I’d like that too. Listen, I’m sorry to disappoint you. I have a long, long, long history, a 50 year history, of disappointing people. So you’re just the most recent person.
Umar Awar: Well, I’ve always been impressed with you, so…
Steven Butala: You have to say that stuff because you work for me.
Steven Butala: So what else they say? Do they ask you mailer questions? I mean, at this point, with some of these people, they’re such regular customers, you probably talk about their kids and stuff, right?
Umar Awar: Oh absolutely. Yeah. No, some of the members I now feel like we know them on a personal note. And at the live event, I saw they’ve clicked with you that exact same way. You know, on a personal level where we talk about everything. As far as primarily everything else is concerned though, mailer related or real estate related, when they hit a nice good mailer, they’ll always call and tell us about it.
Steven Butala: Wow. Tell us a story about that. Like recently, did you get a call from somebody that said, wow, we pounded it?
Umar Awar: Oh yeah. One of our members, and he’s actually relatively new. I think he’s been with us a month and a half, or two months now.
Steven Butala: Jeez. That’s super new.
Umar Awar: Yeah, he did a 5,000 unit mailer right off the bat. Picked up, I think, six deals [crosstalk 00:07:23] out of it. But once again, it was a total once in awhile, once in a blue moon, kind of thing, where he landed three properties out of the mailer, and then just one guy owned a bunch of them.
Steven Butala: Okay. That happens to us probably once a quarter.
Umar Awar: Right.
Steven Butala: Or somebody will call back and say, yeah, we own 80 properties, and please make an offer on all of them. And we love the offer that you made on this property, please make an offer on the rest of them.
Umar Awar: Exactly.
Steven Butala: I love that. Those are my favorite deals, multi-unit deals.
Umar Awar: I actually recently heard about somebody who accidentally send out a letter twice to the same owner, and he was like, man, just leave me alone, and if you want some property, my neighbor is selling. So he contacted the neighbor out and picked up two or three parcels.
Steven Butala: Wow. 5,000 and picking up six. So we’re doing really urban, Jill and I are doing incredibly urban mailers right now for a very specific property type with another member in our group. And we have budgeted one for 5,000.
Umar Awar: Wow.
Steven Butala: And I think I expect to be a little bit surprised, actually. Because we are paying more for the property than we were usually used to. Usually we go in at about 30% of value. We’re going in at 70% of value now because we have five developer buyers that are looking for very specific property. It’s going to be really interesting to see what happens with this.
Umar Awar: Yeah. Yeah.
Steven Butala: Do you have a story of anyone that just completely failed? Or they just sent a mailer out and just didn’t get the results that they expected?
Umar Awar: The over-priced/under-priced thing happens still. Yeah.
Steven Butala: What Umar means is pricing is everything in these offer campaigns. And even we do it. We just get the pricing… We go in too low sometimes, or we go into high. I was just talking to Travis, one of our advanced members, yesterday. And he said his two most recent mailers didn’t yield the results that he wants. And I was just sitting there listening and watching. He said, we budget for this, we expect it, and we adjust accordingly, and make sure that the next ones that go out are better. He built in failing as part of this business. Failing at mailers.
Steven Butala: And I have to say, I’ve failed twice in my career. Once in Michigan where we just went in way too low, and once recently in Arizona for houses where we just went in way, way, way too low. And that’s part of it. Again, even us, two and a half decades later, we fail because of pricing.
Umar Awar: Oh yeah. I mean, that totally happens. You can get 100 mailers right, and there’s no hundred percent guarantee that you’ll get that 101 correct, you know?
Steven Butala: Right. Exactly.
Umar Awar: Because it’s data management. And it’s so easy to make the smallest mistake in Excel in general, and just land with a whole bad spreadsheet.
Steven Butala: Yeah, well that’s why they run it through you.
Umar Awar: Right.
Steven Butala: Umar, thanks. It’s always a treat to talk to you. We’ll check in with you next week.
Umar Awar: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Steven Butala: Join us next time for another interesting episode, and we answer your questions posted on our online community at landinvestors.com. It’s free. You are not alone in your real estate ambition.
Steven Butala: I am alone and screwing up the teleprompter.
Steven Butala: So how’s this going? It’s the first thing we had you in the studio. What do you think?
Umar Awar: It’s really nice. It’s cool.
Steven Butala: All right. Good.
Umar Awar: I’m weirdly comfortable.
Steven Butala: I think that’s awesome.
Steven Butala: Hey, wherever you’re watching or listening, please subscribe and rate us there. I’m Steven Butala. Information, and not so much inspiration, in this episode. Thanks.